neeks416 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

the end of honorable combat. i constantly find myself humming this song, and while feeling of sadness overwhelm me, i cant help but feel that not all honorable men have perished.

Owneador1337 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Yes, I guess that was the reason. Sometimes, a good leader is everything you need for a successfull campaign... Come to think of many other historical moments where a totally "impossible" battle was won, just because the army which was going to lose had an awesome leader...

TakedaWarrior (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Imagine the psychology behind Takeda Shingen's Furkinkazan, at that time it was a marvelous and inspiring story for his troops! When Shingen died , before he died he knew that without him that story would be incomplete and powerless, he foresaw the clan's fall! Imagine the perfect diamond....priceless and then the biggest and most important part is torn from it, offcourse the rest becomes less valuable!

TakedaWarrior (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

I would not say passionate but he wanted to prove himself at least as better as his father was!And killing Oda Tokugawa in one shot would have been a greater acomplishment than Shingen could dream!So that was his fault....he bet on too much!But nontheless the Takeda clan died cause of the presence of Shingen, he was so greatly loved, so greatly respected that the lack of the "Mountain" to support them was too much of a loss to the morale of troops! The Furinkazan was broken without Shingen!

Owneador1337 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Whoah, shit-tons of grammar mistakes in my last message. I should read my posts through before posting :X.

Owneador1337 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

I guess his son was too passionate, and couldn't sit back and things think through. So I believe that Shingen wouldn't want him to make mistakes like the one he had on Nagashino. Kinda reminds me of the Zhuge Liang "DO NOT SETTLE IN THE MOUNTAIN PASS" advice during the Three Kingdoms War at China. His disciple ignored him (he thought the mountain pass was the best strategic position in the area and settled in it). His forces were crushed because of this - Liang somehow KNEW that would happen.

Owneador1337 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Samurai X, much? Anyways; that about WW2 is true: Americans forced the Emperor Hirohito to publicly dismiss bushido and most of their religious-related tradition. This including denying that he had something to do with a greater being or "god". That lead Japan into the biggest religious depression in its history.

TakedaWarrior (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Well his son was not dumb, if u remember he was quite a good leader since he conquered Takatenjin castle!Also his fault was to take on Nobunaga Tokugawa thinking that he might shoot 2 rabbits at once!But yes in all ur points u are correct! Remember tought Shingen never wanted his son to succed him, he wanted his grandson to take leadership when he grew :) U can wonder why? Mabe since he was such a great mean...he felt his son will fail!

Owneador1337 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Because the enemy would attack them, knowing that: 1. Takeda had lost their leader (and, by that their most mighty general). 2. After a King/Daimyo/Shogun/whatever dies, his kingdom/shogunate/whatever gets weaker for a few years. Some political power is lost, alliances get weaker, and sometimes there are even internal fights to elect a heir. I understand why Shingen would like to have his death hidden if he was at an important war at the time. I don't understand why his son was so dumb.

TakedaWarrior (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Well i am more than a fan of the Takeda clan...my whole soul is into this story and theyr tragic fate, so u can imagine i studies every piece of material i could get my hands on, Takeda Shinge was one of the greatest men in human history if u ask me he was a genius in warfare and also in domestic affairs thats why the Tokugawa took some of his ideeas and implemented them!The fall of the Takeda is not Katsuyori's fault...Why u think Shingen wanted to hide his death at least 3 years?Think hard!!!